I'm not sure there's anything I'm able to say about Suika as a character (or maybe I can. I'll see), but those her geometric pendants. Thought-inspiring, remind me of suprematist art. It's sad they are one of the often forgotten elements of touhous' design, even by the official manga artists. Apparently they're connected to this buddhist abstract painting, ○△□ interpreted by ZUN as "nothingness-harmony-permanence" and further to her ability as "diffusion-gathering-permanence(? if I'm parsing japanese correctly)", or, indirectly in CoLA, "harmony-finite-infinite" (not sure in what order in this one). What do you think of them, your interpretations, or something I'm missing?
Also, those wooden-looking horns always being coiled around with something, up to a vine in UDoALG, are just funny to me.

>>19372
I'm a little reluctant to write Suika, because I think ZUN has specific ideas for her that I don't understand. She seems like she's one of Gensokyo's mastermind characters, and the one that's quietest about it. She has her own vision for Gensokyo that's not necessarily in conflict with the Sages but not necessarily the same as their vision either. They say oni hate lies, but she's actually a sneaky little fucker, she just hides it with her "drunk as I like" persona. She seems to thrive on being misunderstood, which is why despite her terrifying power she goes around in the guise of a small girl. I don't really get her.

>>19372
After a long hiatus of being busy with other things I've come back to commenting, and on another Oni no less!
Anyways, I really like the idea of Suika being a former human, mostly because of how it changes her relationship with Kasen. And honestly whether Suika is the child of a human woman and an Oni, or the bastard daughter of Yamato no Orochi by the daughter of Lord Sugawa, I don't think the big picture of her origins change that much. She was born with inhuman traits, unwanted, and ostracized from humanity for her differences, eventually choosing to become an Oni.
Although reading her original legend it's not surprising she's so laid back, despite the status of Shuten-doji and what you might assume of Oni, he welcomes his future killers when they're disguised as mountain hermit priests–it's worth noting the founder of the school they pretend to hail from had two Oni disciples–and gives them his hospitality and complains about how they've been displaced again. Only after they drug him do they kill him, the heroes triumph using the power of subterfuge while the villain is only forthright and honest with the supposed monks.
Although I don't really understand why she's given the ability she had, it's a rather strange but powerful choice.
For stories I don't really have much in mind for her, she has her own vision for Gensokyo but that subject is always so vague that I find it uninteresting. At least other prankster vague-poster characters like Tewi or Yukari/marrr more or less have the 'why' of what their doing figured out, but with Suika we don't even know what origins she has that may affect her world view. If I had to say anything, I kind of see her as a shitty annoying in-law, big-sister, or even mother to Yuugi and Kasen who's family but also gets on their nerves with her scheming and irresponsibility, but her ends themselves aren't really interesting to me so i see her more as a side character to spice up other people's stories, rather than someone I'm interested in writing as holding down a story of thei

I do want to respond to one thing in >>19308
>You can have your little ancillary things such as Sanae being flustered with a mention of Tsukasa if the core of your story is strong.

Sanae being flustered about Tsukasa seemed ancillary because I didn't get the core of the story across, but there was purpose there. Sanae's role in the story is to be a counterexample to Yuiman, a version of Yuiman engaged with the world rather than removed and intermediated. Part of what Yuiman is forgoing in the Pit is a chance at a cute girlish love story. I didn't want to just show the heartache and abandonment of romance without the fun parts.

>>19361
I agree with your conclusion here, but I have a question. What about Kanako's part? There's a lot about Yuiman here, which is fine, but I'm curious what your intent with her was here. I'm probably influenced a bit by SSiB and some of my own headcanons, but I think of actively going after the Lunarians as something that'd be a fool's errand, risky, and something more likely to get yourself hurt. My interpretation is that Kanako wasn't doing it for Yuiman or her brother, but rather for the sake of her own damaged ego. Unlike with her brother, the Lunarians aren't an active threat she's now choosing to oppose, the incident is already over and once again she failed to do anything. For one thing Yuiman doesn't want to be avenged and Kanako talks about rubbing dirt in faces and being looked down on, instead of freeing her brother or wanting to help/reconnect with Yuiman.
Suwako does also downplay Kanako's feelings, saying she's just excited

Also I want to disagree with >>19352
>The story ends at what feels like a halfway point. Yuiman running away from the problem doesn’t feel like much of anything has been resolved in the story that we get, and I’m left feeling like I didn’t get the full dish.
I like Yuiman running back to a comfortable place and refusing to do anything about the Lunarians. For one thing the conflict is more about Yuiman herself and I think her refusing to leave her comfort zone is a good ending. After all, from her point of view Kanako and Sanae bothering her and trying to drag her into conflict is the problem.

>>19362
Not that Anon, but aside from Sanae's annoying line
>It's not that I like you or anything
Which I despise because of how cliche it sounds. Eh, you don't have me convinced for the whole Tsukasa thing, even if Yuiman left the pit Kanko's explan

>>19364
The thought was, Kanako has been legitimately wronged by the Lunarians, just as Yuiman has. The Tenson Kourin was a messed-up business. But contrasting Yuiman's passivity towards what was done to her, Kanako has clung to her grudge with bitterness, to the point that she's blind to Yuiman feeling differently. The shimenawa is a major part of her character design, and in this story it's a symbol of her anger toward the Lunarians. Even though she couldn't do anything to fight them or she'd risk being sealed away too, she kept that flame of enmity burning over the centuries.

Basically each of the Moriya gods represents a different path Yuiman could take. She could earnestly and open-heartedly explore the wonders of Gensokyo like Sanae, she could define herself in opposition to those who wronged her (either the Lunarians or Kanako) like Kanako, or she could accept what happened with a wry sense of humor and try to build mature relationships like Suwako. She declines all those options.

Oh and regarding the cute girlish love story, I'm not meaning that in terms of Yuiman and Kanako getting back together. There's just lots of cute girls to meet in Gensokyo! She could hit it off with, IDK, Alice or somebody. You don't know until you try!

>>19201
I feel like after reading this wall of text the point of view that says "dude she's a rabbit, just chill okay" is a really cool one and exactly the argument you'd use to cheer her up if she got hit by all that stuff in your post

>>19343
Then again, you're supposed to graze bullets, not get hit by them.

>>19343
That's more or less how I view Tewi and Eirin's perspective on the whole matter

.

>>18400
What typifies autumn besides falling leaves? I feel like that's a harder one to capture in any ready shorthand. Summer's hot, yeah. Spring's green, yeah. Winter's cold, yeah. What even is autumn, though?

Maybe it's just because I've lived in a place that doesn't have very "fall" kind of weather or scenery, but I don't have too much emotional connection with it beyond the calendar months of the year.

>>18811

A few ways. One is that the transition between summer and winter can itself be a good indicator; someone dressing for a warm day that turns out a colder and more miserable is a good one.

Setting it during certain events is also a good way to do it, like a festival or the like.

But a subtle way to do it is through food. Pretty much any place with strong seasons will have seasonal meals, where the availability of goods ebbs and flows with the year. Showing people having certain sorts of foods - like September pumpkins - can do well to set the time subtly.

We didn't get the annual Awoo update. Has the finest era finally slid glacially to a whimpering end?

El chupa finally won

I-I can't believe it, out of all characters, we managed to beat Marisa? In a 1v1 nonetheless...

WE ARE SO BACK

>>19104 okey i made it

>>19035
Orin was under the assumption the Oni and Satori wouldn't like it, and that they would kill Okuu for her conquer the surface plan.
But her profile points out that her assumption was incorrect. I imagine that there's some resentment but if the reactor had benefited them they probably don't complain much, either way I think their biggest problem is still with Okuu. Especially now that she bombed protesters, but since she isn't trying to bathe the surface in hellfire anymore they probably don't complain much as long as she minds her own buissness.

>>19035
The capital lot seem fairly segregated from the are of the geyser facility/reactor. Could definitely see the kappa living in their own quarters while they work down there, possibly doing tours of a couple of weeks. Then again, possibly isn't too far to commute from their main hideout on the mountain.

Who'd fix leaky pipes, anyhow? Kappa plumbers in overalls with surly attitudes? Maybe a certain earth spider could be an independent contractor since she seems to enjoy building and fixing things. At any rate, I like to think that most of the underground inhabitants would probably just not think about all that industry nearby—it'd only really be noticed if the water pressure/temperature dropped.

>>19041
I've always felt like it would be a fair ways down to get into the more relevant parts of the Underground, even if you have, say, a lift going straight down; one dreads the sort of maintenance such a thing would regularly need.

Though, yeah, some number of them would probably need to be around for a length of time to ensure proper working order. Imagine being some poor sod stuck on repeated shifts down there because nobody else can do your job. There's probably not enough aircon in the world that would make it bearable for extensive periods.

>earth spider
It'd be interesting to know her position amidst other Undergrounders. I'd guess earth spiders in general don't live in the Capital, but who knows? Maybe there are a quiet few, perhaps called upon for help with construction.

>>19018
>they may have written themselves into a corner or lost sight of what it was that they originally felt like doing and the story [...] became too difficult to set right
Guilty as charged on both counts, and with degrees of planning, too.

>you need to have an ending in mind and work backwards from there
I can see the logic in it, but I think it's difficult to actually pull off. You'd probably have to either stubbornly stick to your decision regardless of story evolution (not a great choice, imo), or be ready to constantly reëvaluate as things shift (pain in the ass). I don't know, though. Never seen a good model of such a plan.

>It doesn't have to be a specific or set-in-stone event either, mind—could just as easily be something like characters taking stock of things or making decisions under the circumstances that have arisen.
I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Your examples seem like somewhat specific events to my understanding. What's the distinction being made? How can those things be less specific or unspecific?

>clear-cut structure
Incidentally, I'm curious how you understand this. When I hear about structure in relation to storytelling, that brings to mind something like a stacking up of discrete "blocks" of story, wherein some relatively independent events occur that still nevertheless contribute at least thematically to a greater "point" or "objective" of a story. That's only one way to conceive of things, of course, and I wonder how others see it. I haven't seen many good examples of story "structure" beyond the usual arc-shaped ones.

>Stories evolve and change even when they're not CYOAs.
I'm also curious on this point. What do you mean, exactly? I suppose it's possible for serialised things that aren't necessarily CYOAs could change, but I can't see the same for something that's just a sing

>>19024
>I'm not quite sure what you mean here.
I was differentiating between something like "Bilbo accidentally comes across the ring and pockets it" which is a distinct event that is easily understood in the context of plot with something more circumstantial and reactive that adds to the story and narrative but isn't an a to b to c event in the plot hence, "could just as easily be something like characters taking stock of things or making decisions under the circumstances that have arisen."

>clear-cut structure
I meant this in the most naked of senses: thing a leads to b leads to c ... leads to the ending. Mapping that out in advance in full isn't necessarily helpful, I think, as it can be something of a straitjacket. I can't offer much in terms of theory or analysis when it comes to the various ways stories are structured—I simply haven't taken the time to break down the many things I've read into what I think are their constituent parts and my experience with books that do is that they're opinionated and prescriptive, to the point of ignoring things that don't conform to their paradigm.

>What do you mean, exactly?
As far as I know no one is capable of foreseeing every aspect of a story and keeping that conception in an immutable fashion in their mind. I've never seen an author ever talk along those lines; working out scenes, character dynamics, specifics of language etc are subject to change as a work is produced and then perhaps edited many times. Stories of any length are not done in a single sitting and, even so, ideas and thoughts naturally arise in response to what is done and how we see those things. This is true even without input from others; votes, reader comments, editors, spouses, imaginary personas, and whomever else can and do affect thoughts and feelings about a work even if indirectly. Time passes—sometimes weeks and months—between entries, revisions, or drafts and so things naturally change and evolve.

>>19026
I guess I'm still not quite understanding the distinction being made. My understanding of what constitutes an "event" is simply something happening in the context of the story/plot. Isn't everything kind of circumstantial on some level? I mean, if Bilbo wasn't in the right place, he'd never find that ring. Of course, the story also wouldn't really progress, but all the same. I don't know. I find it hard to conceive of how a particular set of "things happening" can be outside the general movement of, uh, things.

...then again, I'm still not sure I can disentangle notions of plot versus story.

As to structure in the sense of a particular ordering of things, I suppose it can be limiting if adhered to rigidly. That said, I've experimented with trying to "shape" a narrative in a specific way with... well, difficulty but also minor success. That's been largely very short stuff, though. I don't know how it would even begin to apply to something at scale.

And there is a certain "mainstream" of writing on, uh, writing that clings to the idea of a story being in an "arc" shape, even though the source of that is more analytical conception than anything. I see the appeal of having certain decisions be pared down by default, but I've had little success trying to work that way.

>>18886
For character's past I think that since the fandom has mostly made up its mind on certain characters' past, that most just find it easy to go along with the current of what's understood. Especially if the character's backstory isn't a main focus.
Although it's not like alternate ideas don't exist for that sort of thing. Renko = three fairies of light, Junko = Change, everything going on in Suwako and Kanko's past, Okina (who's hard to decode), Seija's questionable relationship to Sagume (I think I see this one played around with most of all), I guess there's also Nue.

>>18886
>Ah, to have actual Japanese uni library access…
Yeah, that'd be nice! Sadly, my time as an exchange student is over, so the only library I still have access to is on the other side of the pond...

>>18886
>>18888

Ah yeah, I forgot to mention, but I keep up with both of your stories here, they're super fun! Funny that they both star cynics who wear a lot of red...

>>18882

Nice music! I'm always looking for more music for reading and writing. Also glad for your comments - hopefully next time I can kick the habit of meandering and CARVE DIRECTLY THROUGH THE GRANITE TOPSTONE RIGHT INTO THE OCEAN!!!!

>>18650
>I wanted to comment on your argument, maybe even dive in... now that I've read it — we're thinking in such different paradigms it's nearly pointless. Simply look at this:
>two? three?
Three I think. Me, my usual conversation partner, and some other guy.
The quota you were responding too isn't from me, but I don't think you, me, or my usual partner have all that different a perspective. Incidents are largely theater, Gensokyo is a dark setting, everybody is a hypocrite. Although I do believe outsiders do die unlike what you and others say, so they die alongside the people who break the rules/law.
Neither do I really think Reimu is a good or evil person, the situation is more complicated than that and boiling down to good and evil is boring and isn't something I'd want to write in a story. Which is why I don't argue for Reimu being a good person, I don't think she is and the idea of Reimu being a good person without any moral complexity, questionable decision, or moral grayness doesn't interest me. At the same time, Reimu have no internal conflict us equally unappealing to me.
But to answer your question, is such a peace worth it?
I don't know and I'm not sure Reimu is entirely confident in her answer either and I think that's interesting. It's something interesting to explore in a story. So to jump off of that really metal idea of Reimu becoming the little living shrine of the Hakurei god. I think that would be a good place to explore that idea.
For instance, maybe as Reimu undergoes physical and mental changes, she comes to believe it isn't worth it. So in order to repent for her crimes and ensure Gensokyo is destroyed she kills herself at the perfect moment, right in the middle of her transformation. When the Hakurei god is mortal enough to be killed and Reimu is godly enough to make sure she can drag it down to hell with her. Of course her friends and self interested Youkai try to keep her from committing suicide but Reimu succedes anyways and ends up

New one's up!

>>18688
link it, then! (it's >>18683)

>>17987
Speaking as a collaborator on that one, it would have been hard for Kinu to finish since the writer, uh, didn't plan much and lost interest in figuring it out after a while. Rural Concord ended up being something like a spiritual continuation, even if it wasn't strictly the same.

Here's another story I haven't seen anyone bring up:
>>/border/31609

The premise is pretty interesting as far as "walk around and survey Gensokyo" stories go, and it's short and sweet. No need to artificially heighten stakes for the sake of a forced plot or neatly tie up everything with a comprehensive conclusion, just a quick, cozy stroll with some fun character interactions. There's not too many stories that (tangentially) touch on the gyrations of the afterlife, so there's that too. Reading it shouldn't take that long for most considering it's pretty short, so there's not much reason to not. More CYOAs ought to be as small-scale and focused. Maybe more would finish like this one.

>>17990
Is there any way to contact him? He seemed to change his trip alot, so I'm not sure. Really wanted to talk to him about his interpretations.