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Since the last thread (>>18683) has reached bump limit, let's continue the customary character discussions in a new thread. Just like before, every week, everyone will vote for a new Touhou character to discuss. If you have anything at all to say, or just enjoy thinking and talking about Touhou, by all means, share your thoughts. If you want to comment on a character that has been discussed previously, you can use >>17770 The Irregular Character Discussions Thread.
You can comment with your interpretation of the character's personality and outlook, your opinion on what they stand for, story ideas you have for them — anything goes. This is a writing-focused board, but no specific angle or approach is mandatory. You don't have to write a lot either — a small message is just as good, just make sure it's something fellow participants can latch onto or expand upon. As well as just sharing your thoughts, please don't forget to engage with other posters. It's fun to read what others have to say, and starting a conversation helps you shape and enrich your own view.
Apart from the obvious, here are some things you might want to consider:
The boss fight, if there is one — there can be a lot of personality to things like spellcard names and bullet patterns.
The music theme — to help you set the mood, at least!
The character design — visuals are the first thing you see and what you remember them by, after all.
The mythological/cultural inspiration — it can fill in a lot of blanks in an interesting way.
Changes over time — whether in the source material or the fandom.
That's just to get you thinking.
But either way, don't be afraid to speak up. Happy discussing!
Hey, don't just use the exact same header post. *tsukkomi fan smack*
>>19109
>Girlfailures are more grounded and realistic, thus making us easier to relate with these types of characters.
Hardly so! More often than not, they're just a vehicle for the writer moping about their insecurities. Which is relatable, because most people feel terrible about themselves sometimes and build up an exaggerated image of how much they're failing in their head, but just being relatable by virtue of embodying that image doesn't make the character particularly realistic. Like, yeah, pessimism and insecurity is in vogue now, but negativity isn't necessarily realism.
>ATCG refers to the four nitrogenous bases that make up the genetic code of DNA: Adenine, Thymine, Cytosine, and Guanine. While I don't think this says anything about her character
Well, there's DNA info in blood plasma, right? Or something like that. It's tied into her ability, one way or another.
>More often than not, they're just a vehicle for the writer moping about their insecurities.
Reminds me of the whole "She's just like me fr" thing that lots of people implant onto characters. For what makes a character "realistic" or "relatable" should be based on personal experience. The act of writers inserting their insecurities onto a character isn't inherently a bad thing if they know how to interweave it into a character's personality but adding it for the sake of integrating yourself into a story and it barely contributes to anything is shaky.
>>18400
What typifies autumn besides falling leaves? I feel like that's a harder one to capture in any ready shorthand. Summer's hot, yeah. Spring's green, yeah. Winter's cold, yeah. What even is autumn, though?
Maybe it's just because I've lived in a place that doesn't have very "fall" kind of weather or scenery, but I don't have too much emotional connection with it beyond the calendar months of the year.
A few ways. One is that the transition between summer and winter can itself be a good indicator; someone dressing for a warm day that turns out a colder and more miserable is a good one.
Setting it during certain events is also a good way to do it, like a festival or the like.
But a subtle way to do it is through food. Pretty much any place with strong seasons will have seasonal meals, where the availability of goods ebbs and flows with the year. Showing people having certain sorts of foods - like September pumpkins - can do well to set the time subtly.
Since the last thread (>>18276) has reached bump limit, let's continue the customary character discussions in a new thread. Just like before, every week, everyone will vote for a new Touhou character to discuss. If you have anything at all to say, or just enjoy thinking and talking about Touhou, by all means, share your thoughts. If you want to comment on a character that has been discussed previously, you can use >>17770 The Irregular Character Discussions Thread.
You can comment with your interpretation of the character's personality and outlook, your opinion on what they stand for, story ideas you have for them — anything goes. This is a writing-focused board, but no specific angle or approach is mandatory. You don't have to write a lot either — a small message is just as good, just make sure it's something fellow participants can latch onto or expand upon. As well as just sharing your thoughts, please don't forget to engage with other posters. It's fun to read what others have to say, and starting a conversation helps you shape and enrich your own view.
Apart from the obvious, here are some things you might want to consider:
The boss fight, if there is one — there can be a lot of personality to things like spellcard names and bullet patterns.
The music theme — to help you set the mood, at least!
The character design — visuals are the first thing you see and what you remember them by, after all.
The mythological/cultural inspiration — it can fill in a lot of blanks in an interesting way.
Changes over time — whether in the source material or the fandom.
That's just to get you thinking.
But either way, don't be afraid to speak up. Happy discussing!
>>19035
Orin was under the assumption the Oni and Satori wouldn't like it, and that they would kill Okuu for her conquer the surface plan.
But her profile points out that her assumption was incorrect. I imagine that there's some resentment but if the reactor had benefited them they probably don't complain much, either way I think their biggest problem is still with Okuu. Especially now that she bombed protesters, but since she isn't trying to bathe the surface in hellfire anymore they probably don't complain much as long as she minds her own buissness.
>>19035
The capital lot seem fairly segregated from the are of the geyser facility/reactor. Could definitely see the kappa living in their own quarters while they work down there, possibly doing tours of a couple of weeks. Then again, possibly isn't too far to commute from their main hideout on the mountain.
Who'd fix leaky pipes, anyhow? Kappa plumbers in overalls with surly attitudes? Maybe a certain earth spider could be an independent contractor since she seems to enjoy building and fixing things. At any rate, I like to think that most of the underground inhabitants would probably just not think about all that industry nearby—it'd only really be noticed if the water pressure/temperature dropped.
>>19041
I've always felt like it would be a fair ways down to get into the more relevant parts of the Underground, even if you have, say, a lift going straight down; one dreads the sort of maintenance such a thing would regularly need.
Though, yeah, some number of them would probably need to be around for a length of time to ensure proper working order. Imagine being some poor sod stuck on repeated shifts down there because nobody else can do your job. There's probably not enough aircon in the world that would make it bearable for extensive periods.
>earth spider
It'd be interesting to know her position amidst other Undergrounders. I'd guess earth spiders in general don't live in the Capital, but who knows? Maybe there are a quiet few, perhaps called upon for help with construction.
The previous thread (>>16503) is necro-locked, so I guess it's time to make a new one. Same deal as last time: Talk about writing, but keep idea solicitations and unsolicited pronouncements of writing orthodoxy to a minimum.
That out of the way, I wanted to talk about something that might be valuable to some. There's a certain orthodoxy around the shape of narratives resembling an arc, needing to be divided in certain ways, etc. that gets bandied about on the internet and elsewhere a lot. It may help some to adopt that thinking, but I've felt over the years that it hindered just as much. Some narratives really just can't be force-fit into that sort of shape, or trying to do so may constrain things to uncomfortable degrees.
Along these lines, I encountered a book by chance called Meander, Spiral, Explode by Jane Alison (https://search.worldcat.org/title/1049791446). It's less writing advice and more a light examination of pieces of literature and how their narratives take on shapes that depart from the supposedly prototypical arc, mimicking patterns found in nature. To some, it may not be wholly convincing, and certain examples do feel slightly contrived, but I think it's still valuable for consideration. For those who struggle with the idea of the narrative arc, this may well be a godsend.
I was drawn into the ideas presented in Meander, Spiral, Explode enough to try and apply them in some of my own writing. If you can get hold of a copy, I recommend giving it a read.
>>19018
>they may have written themselves into a corner or lost sight of what it was that they originally felt like doing and the story [...] became too difficult to set right
Guilty as charged on both counts, and with degrees of planning, too.
>you need to have an ending in mind and work backwards from there
I can see the logic in it, but I think it's difficult to actually pull off. You'd probably have to either stubbornly stick to your decision regardless of story evolution (not a great choice, imo), or be ready to constantly reëvaluate as things shift (pain in the ass). I don't know, though. Never seen a good model of such a plan.
>It doesn't have to be a specific or set-in-stone event either, mind—could just as easily be something like characters taking stock of things or making decisions under the circumstances that have arisen.
I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Your examples seem like somewhat specific events to my understanding. What's the distinction being made? How can those things be less specific or unspecific?
>clear-cut structure
Incidentally, I'm curious how you understand this. When I hear about structure in relation to storytelling, that brings to mind something like a stacking up of discrete "blocks" of story, wherein some relatively independent events occur that still nevertheless contribute at least thematically to a greater "point" or "objective" of a story. That's only one way to conceive of things, of course, and I wonder how others see it. I haven't seen many good examples of story "structure" beyond the usual arc-shaped ones.
>Stories evolve and change even when they're not CYOAs.
I'm also curious on this point. What do you mean, exactly? I suppose it's possible for serialised things that aren't necessarily CYOAs could change, but I can't see the same for something that's just a sing
>>19024
>I'm not quite sure what you mean here.
I was differentiating between something like "Bilbo accidentally comes across the ring and pockets it" which is a distinct event that is easily understood in the context of plot with something more circumstantial and reactive that adds to the story and narrative but isn't an a to b to c event in the plot hence, "could just as easily be something like characters taking stock of things or making decisions under the circumstances that have arisen."
>clear-cut structure
I meant this in the most naked of senses: thing a leads to b leads to c ... leads to the ending. Mapping that out in advance in full isn't necessarily helpful, I think, as it can be something of a straitjacket. I can't offer much in terms of theory or analysis when it comes to the various ways stories are structured—I simply haven't taken the time to break down the many things I've read into what I think are their constituent parts and my experience with books that do is that they're opinionated and prescriptive, to the point of ignoring things that don't conform to their paradigm.
>What do you mean, exactly?
As far as I know no one is capable of foreseeing every aspect of a story and keeping that conception in an immutable fashion in their mind. I've never seen an author ever talk along those lines; working out scenes, character dynamics, specifics of language etc are subject to change as a work is produced and then perhaps edited many times. Stories of any length are not done in a single sitting and, even so, ideas and thoughts naturally arise in response to what is done and how we see those things. This is true even without input from others; votes, reader comments, editors, spouses, imaginary personas, and whomever else can and do affect thoughts and feelings about a work even if indirectly. Time passes—sometimes weeks and months—between entries, revisions, or drafts and so things naturally change and evolve.
>>19026
I guess I'm still not quite understanding the distinction being made. My understanding of what constitutes an "event" is simply something happening in the context of the story/plot. Isn't everything kind of circumstantial on some level? I mean, if Bilbo wasn't in the right place, he'd never find that ring. Of course, the story also wouldn't really progress, but all the same. I don't know. I find it hard to conceive of how a particular set of "things happening" can be outside the general movement of, uh, things.
...then again, I'm still not sure I can disentangle notions of plot versus story.
As to structure in the sense of a particular ordering of things, I suppose it can be limiting if adhered to rigidly. That said, I've experimented with trying to "shape" a narrative in a specific way with... well, difficulty but also minor success. That's been largely very short stuff, though. I don't know how it would even begin to apply to something at scale.
And there is a certain "mainstream" of writing on, uh, writing that clings to the idea of a story being in an "arc" shape, even though the source of that is more analytical conception than anything. I see the appeal of having certain decisions be pared down by default, but I've had little success trying to work that way.
A few people in the discussion thread and/or the discord have mentioned either having hoping to say more about characters once their week was over, or due to circumstances were not able to participate in the discussion of the week. So I decided to create a thread for people to be able to continue those discussions without taking up the main thread!
Here’s Teruyo’s link to the characters discussed so far (as well as for the character that is currently being talked about, but discussion for that character should be reserved for the main thread!): https://www.thp.moe/discussion
A thought about Remilia comes to mind that might support her having her ability to manipulate fate that she claims to have.
Namely how despite how a few characters involved in incidents being new to gensokyo or just running into the characters from gensokyo going to the other realms that are connected to gensomyo but not in contact. (See former hell, animal hell, the moon heck Sumireiko counts too!) That the fights still manage to be fought under spellcard rules. Which makes Remilia's part with the formation of the spellcard system interesting. Perhaps she isn't just spouting off some false boastto make herself look more powerful, but has been using her power to manipulate fate to ensure that incidents of gensokyo are resolved using the spellcard system? Even when the incident causers didn't know about it before or other similar things?
>>18917
At this point you're just using Remilia as a convenient handwave. You can swap her to any sufficiently powerful and vague person or ability - Yukari/Okina/Keine/Dragon God/lunarians/myriad gods/secret outside world government are somehow ontologically upholding spellcard system with their vague but totally very powerful abilities - and nothing will change in your logic.
>That the fights still manage to be fought under spellcard rules.
We don't have any in-universe evidence that that's the case, do we? I personally think it's simply a game-mechanical convention and in-universe at least in the LoLK and WBaWC incidents danmaku rules weren't used. Anyway, even if somebody will present evidence to the contrary - your theory immediately runs into the classic brick wall of such theories - "why is [she] doing only this with that vague basically omnipotent ability of hers and not that?"
Execpt that Remilia is one of the few involved with the formation of the spellcard system. Leaving it between her, Reimu or Yukari. But there may be a little point that it could be a handwave.
LoLK won't really count since we do know for sure the moon was introduced to the spellcard system during the events of SSiB years before so we know that they did have spellcards.
Furthermore we know it isn't just game convention as not only do they have the whole spellcircle spellcard start up and the same naming convention for both LoLK and WBaWC, but many of those same spellcards showed up for Reimu's spellcard competition in Grimoire of Usami. (Though i think that was before WBaWC... But many of those spellcards also showed for UDoALG which were going on the spellcard system.)
Waaaah…!
Hello everyone. Welcome to the second Spooky Month Writing Contest. I’m your Mascot, Hata no Kokoro… I’m so happy to meet you all.
Welcome everyone. I’m the host for this contest, Gooboi. Last year’s Spooky Month contest was quite a lot of fun, with a nice variety of entries. I always hoped I might be able to make it a yearly thing; so here we are again, giving it another round.
I’m taking over from Kogasa this year. Halloween… it’s really fun, isn’t it? It’s a time of fear, and joy, and so many others… every emotion I can think of, and more! I joined because I wanted all the feelings you could put into your stories.
Indeed, there’s few times better than halloween to run the full gamut of emotions and experiences. From the horror of the unknown to the simple joys of getting and eating candy… Halloween has it all.
THEME
This year, I spoke to a few members of the audience to get their opinions. And they chose from a small list of options I provided. Kokoro, would you do the honours?
This years theme is… Harvest Fest. So it’s festivals this time? Mamizou took me to one of those last year, in the Human Village - wait.
Is something wrong, Kokoro?
…Wasn’t last year’s theme about masks?
It was, but we’re gonna mix it up every year.
…Then why was Kogasa the host that year? Why not me?
I just couldn’t imagine starting a spooky month contest without her as the host, you know? …Don’t look at me like that.
A-anyway, this contest has two main themes, both themed around fall. One is the idea of Harvesting - both in the literal sense of gathering crops, but the fruits of one
>>18886
For character's past I think that since the fandom has mostly made up its mind on certain characters' past, that most just find it easy to go along with the current of what's understood. Especially if the character's backstory isn't a main focus.
Although it's not like alternate ideas don't exist for that sort of thing. Renko = three fairies of light, Junko = Change, everything going on in Suwako and Kanko's past, Okina (who's hard to decode), Seija's questionable relationship to Sagume (I think I see this one played around with most of all), I guess there's also Nue.
>>18886
>Ah, to have actual Japanese uni library access…
Yeah, that'd be nice! Sadly, my time as an exchange student is over, so the only library I still have access to is on the other side of the pond...
Ah yeah, I forgot to mention, but I keep up with both of your stories here, they're super fun! Funny that they both star cynics who wear a lot of red...
Nice music! I'm always looking for more music for reading and writing. Also glad for your comments - hopefully next time I can kick the habit of meandering and CARVE DIRECTLY THROUGH THE GRANITE TOPSTONE RIGHT INTO THE OCEAN!!!!
Let's continue the customary character discussions thread. Just like before, every week, everyone will have a new Touhou character to discuss. If you have anything at all to say, or just enjoy thinking and talking about Touhou, by all means, share your thoughts.
You can comment with your interpretation of the character's personality and outlook, your opinion on what they stand for, story ideas you have for them — anything goes. This is a writing-focused board, but no specific angle or approach is mandatory. You don't have to write a lot either — a small message is just as good, just make sure it's something fellow participants can latch onto or expand upon. As well as just sharing your thoughts, please don't forget to engage with other posters. It's fun to read what others have to say, and starting a conversation helps you shape and enrich your own view.
Apart from the obvious, here are some things you might want to consider:
The boss fight, if there is one — there can be a lot of personality to things like spellcard names and bullet patterns.
The music theme — to help you set the mood, at least!
The character design — visuals are the first thing you see and what you remember them by, after all.
The mythological/cultural inspiration — it can fill in a lot of blanks in an interesting way.
Changes over time — whether in the source material or the fandom.
That's just to get you thinking.
But either way, don't be afraid to speak up. Happy discussing!
>>18650
>I wanted to comment on your argument, maybe even dive in... now that I've read it — we're thinking in such different paradigms it's nearly pointless. Simply look at this:
>two? three?
Three I think. Me, my usual conversation partner, and some other guy.
The quota you were responding too isn't from me, but I don't think you, me, or my usual partner have all that different a perspective. Incidents are largely theater, Gensokyo is a dark setting, everybody is a hypocrite. Although I do believe outsiders do die unlike what you and others say, so they die alongside the people who break the rules/law.
Neither do I really think Reimu is a good or evil person, the situation is more complicated than that and boiling down to good and evil is boring and isn't something I'd want to write in a story. Which is why I don't argue for Reimu being a good person, I don't think she is and the idea of Reimu being a good person without any moral complexity, questionable decision, or moral grayness doesn't interest me. At the same time, Reimu have no internal conflict us equally unappealing to me.
But to answer your question, is such a peace worth it?
I don't know and I'm not sure Reimu is entirely confident in her answer either and I think that's interesting. It's something interesting to explore in a story. So to jump off of that really metal idea of Reimu becoming the little living shrine of the Hakurei god. I think that would be a good place to explore that idea.
For instance, maybe as Reimu undergoes physical and mental changes, she comes to believe it isn't worth it. So in order to repent for her crimes and ensure Gensokyo is destroyed she kills herself at the perfect moment, right in the middle of her transformation. When the Hakurei god is mortal enough to be killed and Reimu is godly enough to make sure she can drag it down to hell with her. Of course her friends and self interested Youkai try to keep her from committing suicide but Reimu succedes anyways and ends up
>>17987
Speaking as a collaborator on that one, it would have been hard for Kinu to finish since the writer, uh, didn't plan much and lost interest in figuring it out after a while. Rural Concord ended up being something like a spiritual continuation, even if it wasn't strictly the same.
Here's another story I haven't seen anyone bring up:
>>/border/31609
The premise is pretty interesting as far as "walk around and survey Gensokyo" stories go, and it's short and sweet. No need to artificially heighten stakes for the sake of a forced plot or neatly tie up everything with a comprehensive conclusion, just a quick, cozy stroll with some fun character interactions. There's not too many stories that (tangentially) touch on the gyrations of the afterlife, so there's that too. Reading it shouldn't take that long for most considering it's pretty short, so there's not much reason to not. More CYOAs ought to be as small-scale and focused. Maybe more would finish like this one.
It looks like the old thread (>>16402) has passed away into obscurity, never again to be bumped. Oh, well! In lieu of repeating the premise of the previous thread, I'll index the previous posts but otherwise rely on the title to be self-explanatory enough:
>>16403 The Tengu a broad-ranging academic overview of tengu-related myths over the centuries
>>16408 Kojiki, the oldest surviving written work from Japan, which details its ancient mythology and the history of its earliest emperors
But I'm going to start this thread off with a different kind of background influence on Touhou, which many of you will already know about but which some of you might not! The illustrated oeuvre of Takemoto Izumi was an early, maybe even formative, influence on ZUN's aesthetic sensibilities, and their influence can be seen very strongly in the earlier games, extending as far as an entire character—pic related—being imported wholesale into the third game of the series. While the overt borrowings may have tapered off over the years, you can still witness the cute, bubbly, but also earnest and at times seriously reflective sensibility in the tone and approach of Touhou today. So, even though the majority of us may be readers and writers and thus might incline more towards textual aspects of the setting or the lore or the characters' personalities and backgrounds, I think it's worth taking a second look at the "silly outfits" of our favourite girls with a finer and more appreciative eye for what non-textual sentiments might have compelled ZUN to design them that way, beyond the two extremes of "obscure mythological reference" and "unqualified whimsy".
>>18374
If you come across any Japanese goblins, give them a sniff for good measure, too. Report back on that.
On a slightly tangential matter, I wonder what humie scent is like to non-humans. Do they find it offensive? Intoxicating? Attractive? At the very least, distinctive? Can they tell us apart by smell, or is it relatively constant? Is there a fairly consistent value ascribed, or is there wide variance?
I think I've seen matter of the sort pop up once or twice in THP stories, but it seems like something not often paid much heed.
Any good recent academic papers out there on miko? I read a few some years ago that I unfortunately never saved. Not having academic database access anymore sucks...
I don't think I have anything to add to the tengu scent discussion (other than maybe that I suspect Hatate's habits overcome whatever scent tengu naturally have or prefer to apply, and she smells like anyone else who shuts themselves in their room 364 days/year. Personally that makes me want to dunk her into the nearest bathtub, but somebody in this thread probably finds it attractive), I'm just dropping by to drop off some tales of necromancy from the journal article I used as a resource for my exhibition entry last month.
Specifically: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10371397.2015.1007120
I have access through my university, but I suspect most other people are going to be out of luck, so if anyone wants I can at least summarise the myths mentioned within (it's mainly focused on one in particular, but it details several others for cultural and historical context). Or just copy them out, if that doesn't violate the site's rules on piracy? Just the summaries of old stories, I mean, not the whole article.
>>18395
I can try and take a look if I have time, though with classes starting up again soon, I don't expect I'll have much.
